I make beats, metal, samples, dnb, original game OSTs, voice models, Russian and English translations. Follow for monthly music producer freebies! Рада помочь русскоговорящим. Семплы в ссылках вниз)))
Icon: @Creeperforce24
Age 30
делаю хиты 8)
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Joined on 9/3/06
Sick bastards. It’s obvious they are trying to hide something, possibly so they don’t get confronted about some sort of old scandal, or trying to brainwash or somewhat.
Because people use stuff like Wayback machine to check for false info, but the labels don’t want that! They want to control how things went! It’s obvious asf
signed and shared with @Overscore
It's either that, or they really are so greedy, they want to sue over some old records. Both make them a blight on humanity! Thank you!
Record labels vs copyright law - a tale as old (or older) as the internet #SOPA2011neva4get
The industry I work in (for my day-job) relies on a lot of the Archive's data of old information. Any risk to the Archive is a problem for everyone.
Ugh, fk the whole SOPA PIPA debacle. It will probably never go away as long as America continues to have the most ridiculous copyright laws -- such that you can't sample a recording of even public domain pieces. You have to perform it yourself, lol -- because the very act of recording creates a new copyright.
I guess that's lovely for the man who records the orchestra, but how will all those performers benefit in any way?! Imagine dividing hundredths of a cent for royalties 200 ways.
The archive is a favorite of mine for studying old synthesizers, artist websites, and promotional materials. I use it almost daily! Needless to say, there is so much good in the Wayback, I can't imagine dumping it all for some damn 78 records
Signed it, doubt it will do much of a difference without direct action thoughever.
You're probably right, but according to some report I read, they are getting close to moving to a dismissal, and hundreds of famous artists have also spoken out against the suit.
Theoretically SSDs do seem like a better choice. Since they're not magnetic the data shouldn't be affected by atmospheric events or what-not either, or randomly impact data integrity overtime.
I only use mechanical drives myself though (apart from built-in computer ones) since the cost/benefit ratio is just so much better. Especially if you buy second-hand you you can get terabytes worth of storage for 10-20 USD/TB or less. Haven't kept track of SSD pricing but I'd assume it's still much higher.
If you do opt for the cheaper alternative, just be sure to have some antistatic bags or cases for 'em. And it's good to have an extra copy of any archive just in case, so far I've barely had a drive die on me, but it's bound to happen more and more the older they get. Some models are definitely more reliable than others, best read reviews on ones you buy, failure rates were for example notoriously high for Seagate compared to WD for a while, with whatever 2-4 TB models they had about a decade ago, it may be the opposite now. Toshiba and HGST were by far the most reliable a decade or so ago too, but they're owned by WD now, and WD's gotten worse. I have a lot of old 2TB WD Green in particular, since they were by far the cheapest for a long time, and they've been great, plus a mix of 2-8TB WD/Seagate/Toshiba/HGST. Have only had issues with old Seagate ones so far.
I'm a bit wary of buying any newer 10-20TB ones even if they are cheaper per TB, since you just lose so much more with a single drive failure if they do fail. Expensive losses/drive.
Also be wary of refurbished drives, batches of previously failed ones sometimes get sold off as new.
If you do mechanical, a good docking station with space for two drives is a super easy way to make backups too, if you don't have one already, instantly makes an identical clone of the source drive bit by bit. So much faster than both USB/internal SATA transfer.
TLDR: Just be sure to read reviews on models if you buy mechanical ones, mechanical should still be a lot cheaper than SSD, but SSD indeed seems way more reliable longterm if you can afford it. I don't know much about SSD though, curious to know how it all goes if that's what you go for!
Hmm, about as I thought! I would probably still prefer SSD due to higher read and write speeds and no need to defrag to keep them happy. I used to avoid them due to the seagate failure rate as you mentioned, but SG is far from the only manufacturer you can chose from.
I also thought about incorporating drives off of old DVR boxes. I think there are some semi-reliable drives to be found there, for 5-20 bucks, and maybe even SSDs. If you can find an SSD and successfully write to it, that's dollars well spent.
What do you think of newer discs and blurays as well? Bit rot is of course a concern, but I heard they are now creating layered discs that could house TONS of data, compared to even modern drives.
@ADR3-N With any luck, theyll slam this case shut and throw these fucks under rolling tank treads if when they try it again.
Right. I'm like, what part of library don't you understand?!
For cold storage defragging probably isn't that necessary either. :) But you're right, SSD sounds better. As far as I know Seagate and WD do actually have a duopoly on the market right now, at least with mechanical drives, they bought up all competing brands; have them as subsidiaries.
DVR may be a bigger thing in the US, I don't think I've ever seen any here, sounds interesting. People sell home servers and NAS occasionally here, but they're usually still pretty expensive when hardware's included. The best buys I've made were just on large amounts of older used 3,5' drives - most people seem to be just looking to buy a few. Or larger capacity ones.
I don't know much about newer discs and bluray, M-disks seem interesting, should theoretically last hundreds of years. I wonder if layers on discs otherwise would be a bit like the layers they've started using on HDDs, which with more density seem less reliable long term too. But of course they're not magnetic, maybe not...
In terms of cost though I don't know a better alternative than just regular drives... but hey, maybe LTO tape is the way to go, it is also magnetic, but made for long term, if you trust Reddit apparently neither SSD nor HDD's really reliable: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ccwl6b/shelf_life_of_cold_ssds_vs_hdds/
...and they're selling 45TB LTO tape here for around 100 USD/a piece. O_O So much cheaper per TB... the actual hardware for writing to LTO was a different matter though, price range 1000-10000 USD depending on the capacity you use... for serious long-term storage though that seems seriously interesting, should be reliable for at least ~30 years... if they say a regular mechanical drive's reliable for just a few years, but in reality usually lasts at least a decade or two, that'd probably be a good for at least a hundred...
DVR was big when cable was widespread, and people had to work during the hours their favorite shows were on. You'd record hours of TV, commercials and all. It only sucked if you had two or three channels you wanted to watch at the same time. The DVRs had nice little drives in them. You'd be hoping for used DVRs that were only lightly used in that case.
I will keep in mind buying bulk used drives.
Where I am leaning is an array of neatly stacked and labeled external SSDs. Connect when needed, store in a cool, dry environment when not. I have had SSDs last me for over a decade, the same Seagates you mentioned. The only problem I somewhat regularly have is the adapters giving in to cable fatigue.
USB to SATA also has interested me. Since I move around so much, my daily drivers are laptop exclusively. A nice USB connected enclosure with old HDDs sounds amazing. Would love a rolling cabinet I could also use as a desk.
M-Disks -- this sounds most interesting. I rotate storage a lot, so the smaller (less layers) capacity, if it means they last, is not of real concern. Create a 25 year backup on the M-Disk, and write at what year I want to just duplicate the disk. Store together, and I'm a happy camper.
LTO may be out of my price range T_T
I already mentioned this on someone else's post, but I cannot stress just how important the Internet Archive is. It’s a living museum of the internet, an invaluable research tool and library, and an easy way to access depreciated software. To this day, my most viewed “contribution” to anything on the internet is a piece of software I reuploaded to the Internet Archive. I’ve found old books, music demos, and plenty of old rom games on the internet archive that would have all been lost had the archive not existed. This lawsuit is fueled by nothing but corporate greed. Human knowledge and artistry should be shared in a way that respects both those who want to learn and the artists themselves, and the Internet Archive was there for that. In the words of Alexandra Elbakyan, “there should be no obstacles to accessing knowledge”, and I argue that the same should apply to art.
I've been using it for 90s sample CDs and the like. Besides ComfyBox, it's one of the best places to find it, and unlike CB, it's not sketchy at all and very easy to search.
Also, I totally agree. Have people used IA to subvert copyright and share things that are protected content? Yes, but in no way does it remotely hurt corporations. They have established customer bases and money flowing in hand over fist. If something is copyrighted, like the books and so on that they got in trouble with, why not just freaking create a loaning system like they have in that case?!
@Cyberdevil @ADR3-N I actually have something to pitch in about this. Me (and my family members) have collected a lot of data over the years, and what I have known to be fairly reliable and cheap is buying Seagate external 8TB hard drives. It's usually cheaper than buying the plain drive when they're on sale. (This might not be the case anymore, it's been a while, so please check.) They come in an enclosure, but it just unclips and reveals a standard 8TB SATA hard drive and a USB 3.0 interface. I've heard of reliability issues with smaller Seagate drives, but haven't had any failures after about 7 years on about a dozen 8TB drives in a NAS system that I built (all semi-frequently read and written). Obviously parity and/or mirroring is a good idea but can get expensive quick. Note: I second what you're saying about WD; I have had multiple failures from them over the years.
Another sneaky way I have stored things is on school Google Drive accounts. I only use this method for backups, as downloading off Google's servers can be slow and at any point my data can be deleted by the admin. There often isn't a limit for how much data each person can use, just for the organization. For my university, it's essentially infinite, as they will expand as they need to. Is this kind to the university? No, but at the same time I am paying ludicrous amounts of money to attend this school (even with aid). Respectfully, they can afford a couple terabytes of compressed, veracrypted c-drive backups.
A friendly reminder that flash-based storage has a write limit. After being written a certain amount of times it will eventually fail. My 400GB micro SD that I had used daily for 8 years finally died last week. I could read it, but couldn't write anything more. Not even a deep level format was able to save it. This shouldn't be as big of a problem for cold storage, but keep it in mind.
If you really want to store something permanently, look into M-Disc. My Blu-ray player on my computer supports it, and I have a 25GB disc, but I haven't had anything worth burning yet. M-Discs are advertised as lasting a millennia, and the NIST has rated M-Discs as lasting over 100 years. Suffice it to say, they will probably outlive you.
Your experience with Seagate mirrors my own. I have only had external 2 TB and 4 TB drives however. Never had a single failure with a Seagate and I have been using them for about 15 years now, maybe longer.
Typically, I migrate my C drive's internal storage into the next device, without touching my old PCs much. I delete what is no longer necessary like old system files, but I keep old windows installers and their serials and so on separately.
I don't have access to school Drives anymore, sadly. Turns out when you went to college ten years ago, they notice xD
SD cards are an excellent option you mention. For cold storage they're pretty good, cheap, and great for mirroring. As you mention, if you write to your disks a lot, probably best to find an alternative, but for things like sample libraries, OS backups, and shows or music you don't expect to write to often, they're perfect. Very small size too. They're the floppies of the modern era.
I still have old floppy disks also. And they still work 30 years on. Obviously, you'll want a bigger capacity than most floppies allow, but harvesting files off old floppies is a worthwhile undertaking.
I've made a blog about it right now thanks to Yatsufusa who informed me about this these days even if I had to wait because of some nasty problems that happened in UJ Portal (now things seem calm). I've signed, contributed a bit and shared it in my blog. I will share the link and the petition to my Italian friends too so they can share it among their friends.
EDIT: I've shared it with all my contacts. They are doing the same.
Excellent! The Archive is an international resource, and everyone loses if it goes down! I feel like maybe we could also make an Internet Archive discussion topic in one of the forums -- probably audio since it has a LOT of cool resources for that. I would say General, but we don't have a general anymore.
@ShangXian You tend to give me too much credit in these kinds of things. I'm pretty much in a 'falling over into my keyboard'-state these days and I am not a lot of help in the Artist News right now either.
If @TangoStar hadn't written 'their' article ( https://tangostar.newgrounds.com/news/post/1529560 ) I would probably not have noticed until next weekend or so when a certain offline friend would (most likely) have told me.
You still are super helpful and on point, and you go out of your way to help other people! Give yourself a smidgen of credit!
@Quest Man I wish I went to a school with those kind of cloud capabilities! Back in university we did get some personal space, but it was very limited, I think they just had their own internal servers and systems back then...
Good to know on the 8TB drives. I actually do have a few of those, and you're right they WERE cheap, haven't seen 'em on sale in a while now. Haven't tried opening any of them up either! Main downside to external drives is how time-consuming they are to clone compared to internal ones, but if you can just remove the casing then... very cool. Thanks for that! Have tried doing so with cheaper ones but the connectors were basically glued in, breaking the case broke the connector too.
M-Disc does seem really cool, but expensive/TB... 10x mechanical drive price. For smaller; particularly important files though...
Thank you for sharing this! I use the Internet Archive everyday, whether it is for actual research on my academic work or actual curiosity of what old websites used to look like (I also read a lot of old books from time to time, as well as download some abandonware from there). Let's hope this lawsuit doesn't fall through!
@Cyberdevil I have advocated for artists investing into an external hard drive or SSD for a long time, but given... *gesticulates upwards* "This.", I think that 'a lot of people' - artists or not - will want to invest into one rather soon.
Regardless of my enthusiasm in this, I am hardly the expert. I can only tell stories about 'my WD loving me more than my Seagate' - because my ancient WD will run quietly for an entire day even if I forget to disconnect it, while my "10"TB Seagate starts to make odd sounds when I shovel files to and from it for 30+ minutes...
'You' on the other hand actually sound like you could write a 'thesis' about the subject...
Do you 'happen to have' a somewhat recent article or long forum post of yours I could conveniently link people to? Or maybe a blog post elsewhere on the internet that you refer to yourself? I think it would help people to convince themselves to make the investment if somebody more competent gave them a nudge.
It's not an 'urgent' matter, if you want to get a Seagate-sponsorship link first... ;D
Yeah I've heard of DVR, but mostly via American movies or shows I think, I'm not sure they ever were a thing here. Same with voicemail for regular phones. Considering their age I'd be surprised if DVR actually have SDD, but who knows, maybe they were ahead of their time! Do let me know how that goes if you find some.
✨👍
Hmm probably not the same Seagate ones I mention, I've only had mechanical ones myself, but that's good to know. With newer mechanical you apparently have flash memory that can wear out before the actual mechanical drive too, things be getting complicated...
For sure, be it a NAS, or just a case, or docking station, just plain USB > SATA cable too, lots of useful options there. :)
Be wary btw, M-Disks may be phasing out: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/yu4j1u/psa_verbatim_no_longer_sells_real_m_discs_now/
Mmm if only we had some local kind of archival organization working with LTO. Could invest in a mutual one and just have our individual tapes, so cheap for the storage itself!
@Yatsufusa True that! Personal backups at least seem essential, but there's no way any regular person could replicate the archive in its entirety, their storage is tremendous... I do hope they manage to stick around too.
I'm glad there's someone else here who has a better experience with WD than Seagate too. :D The new do sound a bit off sometimes, for sure, I wonder if it's the new SMR kind of technology they're using now for better storage density, or if it always was like this... newer mechanical drives are way more complex than the conventional ones, they've been trying to figure out ways to get more storage into the same space, and it doesn't seem to work great for reliability long-term, but who knows, newer ones are still pretty new, will be interesting to see how they stand the test of time compared to the simple conventional single platter builds...
I do invest quite a bit of time on storage hmm. 😅 Still so much more to learn.
I don't think I do have any I could link to... maybe ought research a bit more and write up a proper blog sometime. Best backup-related source I know about otherwise: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/
Their yearly updates in particular are great, lots of statistics on better models/brands: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2024/
@ADR3-N I totally support your idea of making an Internet Archive forum thread to attract more people but I was wondering which forum best suits the topic. Audio seems a pretty nice choice, I was also thinking about Club/Crews as "Internet Archive Club" or something like that but maybe Audio fits more. Feel free to correct me^^
If there's a forum thread, I think someone other than me should write it. @Yatsufusa, I'm enamored with the style of your last post. Do you think you could stomach the social interaction required to write thread and jump ship once discussion has begun?
@Yatsufusa @TangoStar I agree with ADR3-N, you are always this helpful and willing to give useful resources, not to mention the interesting blogs you make.
@Cyberdevil First of all: Thanks for the links. If you ever do write a News/Blog Post about the subject (no pressure), I would be happy to receive a link. Even if I were to one day fall on the cellar steps, it would survive in this mess here: https://www.newgrounds.com/collection/330234/guides-tutorials-other-help
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Also... Sorry for my ambiguous wording: I did 'not' want to imply that people would attempt to "download archive.org" in droves. "After all, 'downloading the internet' takes 'years'." ;)
But I 'do' think that 'at least some' will make an effort to archive what 'they' are particularly interested in - even if they do not have the time to sift through the material 'right now'.
As a simile: I bought "over 100" games on 'GOG' (formerly 'Good Old Games'). But I had only dried about 20, because I never find the headspace for these things. And then I 'deleted' my 'GOG'-account after getting fed-up with their _transphobia_ and their continued, _blatant_ disregard for their customers' privacy.
But _before_ I did that, I did some quick math, ordered an external hard drive, started downloading installers for all the games I bought from them, paused and then downloaded the rest when the external drive arrived. I might never convince myself to get Linux - but 'if' I ever do, I still have all those installers for both Windows 'and' Linux.
Others might start similar 'archiving sprees' here.
Logically speaking, there is no "individual safety" in this regard. The only way to stay safe is to protect _everyone_. Either we stand up for each other or we _all_ get screwed!
But 'psychologically', your 'inner hamster' tells you to "fill those drives to capacity - and then some!" ;)
I hope I could explain it better this time around.
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Great... -.- Now I can't stop thinking about cute hamsters...
(
Off-Topic 'Hamster Corner' for those suffering with me:
https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/criee/robrapsie
https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/stupah/3d-hamcake
https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/hyperionnova/pecca-secret-santa-2024
)
@ADR3-N & @ShangXian
Maybe I should say these things more often, but 'you' are doing great work as well.
So you can stop trying to butter me up, y'all... ;3
(And I already said I'll publish a post tomorrow. The article is already fully typed out and was proofread by a generous volunteer. As I said earlier, I'm just waiting until tomorrow for a better spread.)
Cyberdevil
TY for the menion! I'm aware of their ongoing battle, though... maybe it was another I've been aware of, seems they've been facing a lot of legal issues lately... not strange, since everyone in this world's out for profit, but unfortunate for sure, they really are an invaluable service...
Hope they win this. Contributing; archiving what I can... shall share further.
ADR3-N
Thank you! Also, regarding archiving, I have some questions about disks you recommend, and the expected price I should expect to dig into if I want to do cold storage. Would you recommend SSDs, since even when they die, you can at least still read them, as opposed to dead heads?